Take the rant, then flip it and reverse it

DATE: 04/07/2003 04:22:32 PM
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After speaking with some of my friends who read my Rap Rant, I've decided to show you my other side.  Since I took the time to tell you about rap songs I like and rock songs I hate</a>, I'll also take the time to tell you about the opposite.  First, let's deal with the RAP songs I HATE:

<b>1. Anything by Ja Rule. </b> This guy is one of the biggest no-talent pieces o' shit ever.  His beats aren't even all that catchy, and the ones that are have been used before.  His flow sucks, and his chief standout characteristic is that he has a unique voice.  Too bad it sounds annoying...and his lyrics are worthless.  50-Cent even wrote a song about him: it's called "Wanksta", because Ja Rule is such a fucking poser.

<b>2. Anything by Fabolous.</b> HHHHHHEEEEE RAAAAAAPPPPPPPSSSS SSSSSSSOOOOO SSSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!!  He's so boring, I could fall asleep to his songs every night.  Worse, his lyrics are garbage.  The Neptunes singlehandedly made him a star.  He doesn't deserve it.  Don't holla back, young 'n!

<b>3. Puff Daddy, "Been Around the World".</b>  This song is quintessential Puff Daddy - unoriginal, boring and useless.  The lyrics suck, his flow sucks, and both the music and refrain were stolen from someone else.  It's songs like this that make ignorant folks think rap is crap.  

<b>4. 2Pac: "Changes."</b>  For those of you who thought I didn't have the balls to take on a universally worshiped hip-hop artist: You were wrong.  I don't know how to say it any differently: THIS SONG SUCKS.  Before you go nuts, yes, the lyrics are great.  But it's nothing Tupac hasn't said before, with a more original setting.  And when you use a song as distinctive as "The Way It Is" and substitute Bruce Hornsby's heartfelt vocals for some generic R&B crooning, you're headed for a heartbreak worse than Winger.  Sampling virtually an entire song is my pet peeve of the rap genre: if you're going to borrow, do so with some tact, for crying out loud.  I hope if Tupac was alive today, he would have elected not to release this song.  Unfortunately, he's not around to make those decisions anymore.

<b>5. 50-cent: "Wanksta".</b>  YAWN.  This song is so dull.  50 has put out some good stuff, but not consistently; his popular songs reveal either an average rapper or someone just not trying very hard.  The song gets points for ripping on Ja Rule, but I never voluntarily put this tune on.  It really IS too repetitive.

Now, the popular rock songs I like:

<b>1. Coldplay, "In My Place":</b> Coldplay's second album is a QUANTUM LEAP from their first album, Parachutes.  The songwriting is so much better it's not even funny.  This song is beautiful and haunting in an ethereal way, and lacks the overtly-dripping sappiness of most of the first CD ("Yellow", anyone?).  Other favorites of mine from this disc are "Amsterdam" and "God Put A Smile Upon Your Face."

<b>2. U2, "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me":</b> I have always loved this song, from the warped guitar-ish synth intro to the string-orchestral coda.  The digital effects throughout complement the song perfectly, and the entire band is at its rocking best.  As much as he annoys me in "Sweetest Thing", Bono kicks ass here.

<b>3. Creed, "My Own Prison".  </b>Can you believe it? jcabana likes a Creed song!  I should be dragged out into the street and shot, I know.  and I can't really tell you why I like it, other than I am a sucker for <a href="http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/A74F3812B30A1E54482568B1002D0DEF">dark lyrical subject matter</a> with a grungy tinge.  Of course, this WAS Creed's breakout hit, and to me it is also musically superior to their following chart-toppers.  The singing is more interesting, and the bass player actually plays a real bassline.  And they actually composed a refrain and bridge that are musically distinct from the rest of the song.  Funny how much the little things can make a difference.  

<b>4. Weezer, "Say It Ain't So":</b>  <a href="http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/08E12855AC5B1BA3482568B600169D34">Lyrically</a> and musically, this song is just sweet.  It's even a bit unpredictable musically, which always scores points with me; the bridge is badass.  This song represents what is good about Weezer.

So there you have it.  I'm not a total hardass, am I?  
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EXCERPT:
After speaking with some of my friends who read my Rap Rant, I've decided to show you my other side.  Since I took the time to tell you about rap songs I like and rock songs I hate, I'll also take the time to tell you about the opposite.  First, let's deal with the rap songs I hate, and then I'll delve into some rock songs I like:
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Thomas
URL:
DATE: 04/09/2003 01:07:45 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DAVE EVANS!

"My Own Prison" ROCKS!

Seriously, though - yeah, this is beginning to look like those threads on fan sites, where people incessantly debate inherently subjective matter.

I personally can't stand Creed because I hate all Eddie Vedder ripoffs, but I do like "My Own Prison" enough.  That's more despite Creed and Stapp's voice.  But the song itself is catchy (what, is "catchy" a crime?) and the lyrics are good.  I had never really given it this much thought until this thread.

And I thought J__ DID explain why he liked the song.

"The singing is more interesting, and the bass player actually plays a real bassline. And they actually composed a refrain and bridge that are musically distinct from the rest of the song. Funny how much the little things can make a difference."

Tom

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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
URL:
DATE: 04/09/2003 11:47:24 AM
Dave, this was my point all along.  In my posts, I talked about songs I like, and songs I don't like, and why I happen to love or hate certain songs.  I never said anyone else should hate the songs I criticized.  I never said anyone should love the songs I do.  And, with the exception of Matchbox 20, I never said anything about the bands behind the music.

All I said was that it's silly to make blanket, uninformed statements about genres of music that you haven't taken the time to get to know, because your favorite music can be criticized based on the same uninformed generalizations.  That's all.  Hopefully, someone got the point.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Dave
URL:
DATE: 04/09/2003 11:33:45 AM
So this conversation is starting to get annoying.  First of all, I hate Creed too, but I really like My Own Prison, especially the acoustic version.  Isn't the point that music IS subjective and who gives a shit what others like.  People like Creed because in their own way, they connect with the song, whether they like the tune and find it catchy, or they like the lyrics, or simply, something just resonates with them.  

NSync was huge because enough people liked their tunes, their look, their dancing...whatever...'suck' is such a relative thing when it comes music that to criticize it (or moreso, people's enjoyment of it) is just pointless.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
URL:
DATE: 04/09/2003 11:07:50 AM
THANK YOU!   That's all I wanted you to say.  I appreciate people disagreeing with me, as long as they tell me why.  I DON'T appreciate it when they take personal shots at me for having the guts to admit stuff in public, then generalizing it beyond my original point.  Yes Ed, saying "You SHOULD be dragged out into the street and shot" makes it personal.  I've never said anything like that about someone who disagrees with me here, and I expect the same respect.  You may have thought you were being funny, but there's a good reason I don't say things like that.

I never said anything about you until you kept harping on the same issue - all without opening yourself up to criticism.  You keep saying you don't like Creed.  Now, you've actually told me why.  But that's pretty irrelevant to the discussion, because we both hate Creed!!!  What I wanted to know is why you don't like THAT SONG.  If you can't tell me, that's okay.  Just say so.  

Just remember, everything you just said about Creed applies to Nickelback.  And both Yellow and Sweetest Thing can be criticized for being "sterile," "self-indulgent" and "ordinary."  In fact, that was the essence of my criticisms of those songs.  We're all inconsistent, aren't we?  That's fine.  But don't just come in and say something sucks, without giving any reasons why.  It sounds ignorant and uninformed.  I could say "California sucks."  If I don't say why, I sound pretty stupid.

The original point of this entry was to show the flip side of my first argument defending rap.  I wanted to show that I DO like different songs by bands like U2 and Coldplay, so people would get a sense of balance.  But in true journalistic fashion, you took my discussion and completely warped it by honing in on one thing I said, twisting it and personalizing it.  Way to miss the point.

(By the way, Leary is one MARGINALLY funny motherfucker.  I could watch him for half an hour to an hour, and no more.  His schtick gets old over time.)  
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ed
URL:
DATE: 04/09/2003 09:35:27 AM
Ok, breath and pretend you're Dan Snyder buying up every half-way decent free agent in the NFL and find that calm and happy place...while trying not to imagine the Eagles going mad ass all over the Indiginous People...I don't like My Own Prison or any other Creed song I've heard because it's all so safe and ordinary. Rock and music in general isn't supposed to be so sterile, which is my common complaint with music today. I'm all for indulging in guilty pleasures in music, and have many. You'd probably laugh that I own a Nickelback CD and some others would that I own a Marilyn Manson CD. But, on your list of song you don't like from bands you do I like Yellow and Sweetest Thing, and I own (and love) Verve albums. I just think that Creed is usually singled out for my ridicule because of how self-indulgent their music and (especially) videos are. One DJ out here was explaining it like this, Creed is a band that my little sister (even though I don't have one) would like. I know you don't like the band, and are just sticking up for the one song. But, those are my feelings on it. Music is just so subjective it's hard to say why you like one song, don't like another and still others cause you to want to wipe out a whole band with one WMD - like Offspring or Bush. And to think, this whole discussion could have been laid to rest if you just agreed that Denis Leary is one funny motherfucker.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
URL:
DATE: 04/08/2003 07:58:52 PM
According to my PERSONAL criteria for a good song, My Own Prison IS a good song.  It's got just enough changes to stay interesting, and the lyrics are just meaningful and interesting enough for me to care.  Plus, it's dark and gloomy, which is always a plus in my book.  

It is even somewhat consistent with the rest of my musical tastes - meaning that those who know what I listen to, and know how I evaluate the stuff I listen to, would probably predict that I would like it.  If you disagree, perhaps we're evaluating the song based on different criteria.  We're all entitled to our opinions.  But since you haven't actually told me WHY you don't like the song, I can't imagine what your rationale is other than a knee-jerk reaction to a band you dislike - a response I find to be (as already stated) Pavlovian and immature.   

You know what?  It's quite easy to lob verbal grenades without taking any risks yourself.  I know there are songs (and albums) you like that people would mock you for.  The difference between me and you is, you're too chicken-shit to admit it in public.  That's all I'm saying.

If you change your mind and actually grow some balls, feel free to confess the sins of your musical tastes.  That's what I did, and that's what this particular entry was for.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ed
URL:
DATE: 04/08/2003 06:11:36 PM
I can't believe you J!  You think I'd do something spiteful??? It's like you hardly even know me...Anyway, bad groups can release good songs.  My Own Prison, however, is not a good song.  Neither is anything else Creed has done.  If you like it, that's between you and your cd player/mp3 player/auditory therapist.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
DATE: 04/08/2003 02:56:18 PM
Ashley, Creed sucks.  By all means, comment away.  So far, no one disagrees.  Will you be the first?

Oh, and I think Leary's pretty funny, too...for a white guy.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ashley
URL:
DATE: 04/08/2003 01:09:15 PM
I agree with Ed, Dennis Leary is very funny. But then again I thought that Coldplay's first CD was much better than the second, so what do I know? Heh. I will refrain from commenting on Creed.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
URL:
DATE: 04/08/2003 12:45:14 PM
You're right about Creed; you're wrong about Denis Leary.  But like I said (and you tellingly avoided addressing), a bad band can put out a good song.

And in response to your threat to buy me Creed CDs, that would be really spiteful of you.  But be warned: "Stand back!  There's a Hurricane comin' through!"
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ed
URL:
DATE: 04/08/2003 12:23:19 PM
Don't get all defensive...at least I know now that I can get you Creed CDs for your birthday and you'll be good with that...And Denis Leary is very funny, not marginally funny...just like Creed are very bad, not marginally good.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: jcabana
URL:
DATE: 04/07/2003 11:53:44 PM
Blow me.  Creed put out one good song, and I'm man enough to admit it.  I may be a lot of things, but I'm no coward.  Bad bands sometimes put out good music, and it's Pavlovian to lash out even when they do something right.  No matter which marginally funny cracker comedian wants them dead.
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COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Ed
URL:
DATE: 04/07/2003 11:03:48 PM
You're right: You should be dragged into the street and shot for including Creed in the second category. To riff on Denis Leary, Stevie Ray Vaughn is dead, but we can't get Scott Stapp in a helicopter!?! Why, God? Why?
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